doctor who rewatch → 1x11
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TELL ME AGAIN WHY YOU HATE ROSE TYLER
The Parting of the Ways // The Time of the Doctor
I’ve now got a mental thing where Rose and Clara were classmates.
You don’t just give up. You don’t just let things happen. You make a stand. You say no. You have the guts to do what’s right when everyone else just runs away!
Clara’s story arc and Rose’s bad wolf arc are both very similar.They are both normal people if you take away that one event. If Clara is too special because of her multiple copies then Rose is too special because of Bad Wolf
except one key difference: the whole of Clara’s series was filled with the mystery of who she was and eleven obsesses over her, wondering if she’s a trick or a trap despite her being ordinary.
Rose’s series wasn’t spent with nine going ‘who is rose???? she’s not possible!? i’ll visit a psychic to see if she knows who she is. she’s impossible! HOW CAN SHE EXIST?’.
the difference is that the question in S1 (which isn’t actually brought up until the second last story) is ‘What is Bad Wolf?’ and Rose is the solution to that question. in S7 the question is ‘Who/What is Clara?’ (which is present before we even meet proper clara) and the solution is the timestream. Clara is the mystery to be solved whereas Rose isn’t.
additionally the narrative doesn’t really focus on Clara saving the universe, it’s all about saving the Doctor, whereas Rose is fighting to return, not just for Nine, but for Jack, the other fighters and the whole of the planet. Also Rose makes a conscious choice to return when she could just walk away, which gives her agency, whereas Clara decides to do it… because she knows she’s already done it: 'But this is what I've already done. You've already seen me do it. I’m the Impossible Girl, and this is why.’
Yes but isn’t the idea that the doctor sees her as a mystery and not a person the whole point of that half of the series?
Clara is a completely ordinary women. She’s special in her own way like all companions but the doctor doesn’t see this. He sees her as a mystery instead of a person and he is constantly reminded how backwards this is. He doesn’t just get away with it. The two main examples I see are the Neil Cross episodes (frankly one of my favourite new writers on this show).
Rings of Akhaten: “I won’t compete with a ghost”
Hide: “She’s a perfectly ordinary girl”
”and that’s all?”
”isn’t that enough?”
We are reminded that the doctor treating her as a mystery is wrong.
Also I would argue that Rose’s decision to go back is the same as Clara’s. Rose says the fact that Bad Wolf existing here and in the future means that she can get back and that’s why she makes that decision.
My initial point was neither of these actions makes a character too special though. They are both just ordinary women who do something to make then special. It’s just the approach is different.
I’ve said this in discussions with other people, but I wanted to reblog it directly from you so you’d see it, dbowker (and forgive me for jumping into this conversation, but I can’t resist a good debate).
To me, the difference is that Clara takes an obvious action that is right in front of her by jumping into the timestream. Rose has to think for herself and use what she has learned in her previous adventures to figure out what to do; there’s no obvious connection between “Bad Wolf” and “look into the heart of the Tardis”. Furthermore, Rose is only able to open the heart of the Tardis because she is embedded in her family and her community: she has her longtime friend Mickey, and her mother, and the unseen Rodrigo who owes her mum a favor.
It’s not that Clara is too special, but that special is all she is. She doesn’t have a fully-fleshed-out ordinary life, unconnected to the Doctor.
but she kind of does….ok maybe it’s not shown as much but she has that family, we’ve seen her dad and her job as a nanny and her mothers death and she only travels with the doctor on wednesday’s. She has this whole life outside of the doctor and a fully developed personality from the get go (she’s a lot more self assured than a lot of companions).
Actually that’s something Moffat’s companions have. They all have a life outside the doctor but I think the main difference is just that we are seeing things largely from the doctors perspective during the second half of series 7 while in series 1 the companion was the focus and the doctor was the mystery.
(also Clara did kind of think about it since she remembered the doctor mentioning her in victorian london and the dalek asylum)
I’m sorry, but the Doctor wasn’t obsessed with Clara in the Snowmen -which is where they met - and where he made the choice to travel with her. People seem to forget this.
The Doctor was inspired by who she was - very much like Nine and Rose - to get out of his bitterness. She got through to him after the loss of his family, which was the hardest blow he had gotten, I mean he had completely retired- no previous loss of any kind had made him do that. And he had rejected countless previous companions before her, as implied by Madam Vastra.
OK - but Victorian Clara was an echo! Yes, but it was stillessentially Clara - just like River’s Echo was essentially River. She couldn’t remember her past lives, but she still grew up to be Clara!
Like all the Claras, Victorian Clara cared about her family (she helped her uncle) - and cared about children (just like the Doctor). She was funny, and clever, and caring, and brave,and self sacrificing, and it made the Doctor want to take her with him.
And I think it’s her love of people, and her compassion that distinguishes Clara - it made Victorian Clara want to fight for humanity and real Clara in the entirety of season 7B and the Day of the Doctor - to help the Doctor save planets and himself. So it wasn’t the mystery that intrigued him initially, he actually fell in love with one of her echos because of who she was, not because of her mystery.
Once he figured out that there were various Claras, he became obsessed with finding out why. And it made him hesitant and distant but at the same time he couldn’t help but adore her - so there was this difficult battle going on inside of him (which was the point). So though the mystery became the essential part, it wasn’t there just to make her special, it was there to contrast all his previous companions. It was another story all together - and it was intentional.
Also, Clara didn’t decide to be dispersed BECAUSE she had already done it, she was telling the Doctor that because she was reassuring him that everything would be ok. KNOWING your future is what enables you to change it, and she DOES NOT change it, even though he begs her to. Instead shejumps in to save him, just like Rose did to save Nine.
And even though you can say - "Rose wanted to save her family and the world," that wasn’t the point, the point was the companion saving the Doctor. Just like Clara in The Name of the Doctor.
Of course they both wanted to make sure the universe stayed in tact, give them credit for it of course! But both their objectives were to save HIM. Bad Wolf only saved Jack once she had the power to do so, but she wasn’t initially going back for him, she was going back for Nine. Clara doesn’t jump in solely to bring back Strax and Jenny, but she wants to and jumping in will also do that.
Clara also has agency - she could have decided not to run into the timestream - the TARDIS would have taken them back, it’s CLEARLY stated - but Clara is brave and doesn’t back down. Just because Rose had to use more resources to get the job done doesn’t mean it’s any more independent that GIVING UP ONE’S LIFE (Which is what River said would happen - she told Clara that she wouldn’t survive the jump.) Yet, Clara does it anyway.
I can assure you that ANY companion could have taken in the heart of the TARDIS, I think they are all worthy to do so - just like they would ALL jump into his timestream to save him. SO cut the crap.
And to finish, Clara is not special because of who she was to the Doctor, she was special because of who she is, period. She is so loyal and so caring that all her echos would die selflessly protecting him and the world. Because that’s her blueprint. That’s WHO the real Clara is, someone who understands that the Doctor, and people, are worth saving.